In this episode of the Water Prairie Chronicles, host Tonya Wollum and guest Lisa Jacovsky, an experienced ABA therapist and author, delve into the world of ABA therapy. They explore the core principles of ABA, discuss its potential benefits and challenges, and address common concerns and misconceptions parents may have. Lisa shares her expertise and offers valuable insights for families considering ABA therapy for their autistic child, including how to choose a qualified therapist and ensure a positive experience. They also touch on sensory processing, social anxiety, and the evolving understanding of autism.

Show Notes:
Is ABA therapy right for your child? We explore the truth behind the therapy, separating fact from fiction.

In this episode of the Water Prairie Chronicles, host Tonya Wollum and guest Lisa Jacovsky, an experienced ABA therapist and author, delve into the world of ABA therapy. They explore the core principles of ABA, discuss its potential benefits and challenges, and address common concerns and misconceptions parents may have. Lisa shares her expertise and offers valuable insights for families considering ABA therapy for their autistic child, including how to choose a qualified therapist and ensure a positive experience. They also touch on sensory processing, social anxiety, and the evolving understanding of autism.

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Music Used:

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Episode #118: A Psychology Professor Reveals The Truth About ABA Therapy

Is ABA therapy right for your child?

We explore the truth behind the therapy, separating fact from fiction.

(Recorded May 29, 2024)

Full Transcript of Interview:

Tonya: Is ABA therapy helping autistic children, or is it trying to force them to conform? This week on the Water Prairie Chronicles, we’re diving into the complexities of ABA with Lisa Jacovsky, a psychology professor at Union College of New Jersey. Lisa will be sharing her balanced perspective on ABA therapy.

The good, the not so good. When she recommends it and when she doesn’t. Welcome to the Water Prairie Chronicles, a podcast for special needs parents. I’m your host Tonya Wollum, and I’m glad you’re here.

Lisa, welcome to Water Prairie.

Lisa: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

So this is, this is exciting. In season one, I told Lisa this a while ago, but listeners, in case you haven’t been with us that, that long, we talked about ABA therapy and it was my first real conversation in finding out why sometimes people seem to be a fan and why some people don’t. And so that gave us a good kind of foundation to start with. And I will link this, that, that one in the notes. So if you want to go back and see that, but this is more up to date information because we’re two years into it now.

So listen through this conversation first, then you can go back and, and listen to, to, to the older one. So I thought maybe we’d start and pretend that we don’t know anything. So can you explain what ABA therapy is to begin with?

So ABA therapy stands for Applied Behavior Analysis, which is a form of science that we use to modify the environment so that it affects our behaviors in a positive or negative way.

And we also use techniques that will affect behaviors to increase positive ones we want to see and decrease negative ones we don’t want to see. And when I say positive and negative, it has to do with things that affect your daily living skills. So being able to socialize, being able to engage in behaviors where you can make your own laundry or your food.

So it’s really simple things like that.

Okay. So you’re, cause some of the negative that I’d heard before was forcing a child to do something that’s like out of their natural zone completely. Is that still what ABA is or because it sounds like for you You have to have certain quality of life issues that have to be met.

That sounds like what you’re focusing on

So a lot of the negativity comes from the fact that ABA Continues to want you to do things that would be more of like your daily living skills But it could be hard for you to do. So if a child says no, we’re trained to sit there and Wait 30 seconds and then try again.

So some people might see that as pushing too hard or if a child goes to hit you or kick you, we’re trained to back up and so they can’t actually physically reach us and we want to make sure that they know, you know, we also block sometimes and there’s also schools and companies, residential group homes that do, um, restraints.

So that is for when it’s more physically serious, where we’re only allowed to use those if the individual is engaging in something that puts their life or another individual’s life into harm’s way. But, as with anything that’s positive, there is negative. So there are people that abuse this. And I’ve definitely worked with, unfortunately, many people who have done this.

Um, but I’ve also worked with many, many incredible people who are smart, who do ABA incredibly well and positively. So unfortunately, with having those people who abuse it, who, you know, restrain without those criteria being met or block without the criteria being met, or if a child says no, they don’t take you for an answer.

They continue to push, push, push. Um, or if a child is crying and tantruming, they continue to push, push, push. That’s where that negative connotation comes from and that negative reputation.

Yeah. ’cause I could see, I, I’m thinking especially if a child who is autistic would be my first thought here, and that’s where I see it connected the most.

And I’ll ask in just a minute, a follow up on that part. But if a child is sensory overloaded and they cannot take any other input. It would seem cruel if you keep pushing on that, but it sounds like that’s not what ABA should be.

Absolutely. And that’s the thing with ABA is when you get into any field and you get to a certain point, sometimes it goes to your head and you think you know what you’re doing and.

You know, you train people to do it this way, and then you kind of get that trickle down effect of people learning how to do it incorrectly. There’s also the idea of, you just talked about autism, you need a lot of patience for, you know, especially if you’re working early intervention, because you’re working with kids under 3.

But if you’re working with kids with autism that are maybe 8, 10 years old, Can’t look you in the eye. Don’t talk verbally. They use, you know, like a PEC system, a picture exchange communication system. You need a lot of patience and we can say we have all the patience in the world. You can be the calmest person in the world, but if you go in there and you’re having a bad day, something is stressing you out, there is a likelihood that you’re going to get very stressed out by the client you’re working with.

So unfortunately there are those days and times when people take that out on their clients. Or, you know, they sit there on their phone instead of doing what they’re supposed to with their client because their head is just not in it. I’ve seen that too. So, you know, it’s, it’s very difficult to work with as much as it is rewarding, you know, and it’s a beautiful, beautiful field to work in.

These clients and individuals are incredible, but there’s also that downside of that stress where you need patience. And for me, when I work in ABA, the kids were never the problem. The parents were. So, um, you know, I’ve worked with incredible children. I work with an incredible child and family right now.

And I tell the mom all the time, I wish all my clients were like you and this little one. Especially the mom because she’s so incredible. But I get it, you know, it’s, it’s very stressful to have a little one on the spectrum or even just have a little one that’s delayed and needs ABA to help them get caught up.

So, you know, it’s, there’s all these different kinds of dynamics that go along with that, that make it a field that’s very hard to work in, but it’s also, and you get into it and it’s something that you’re passionate about and you do it right. It’s very rewarding too.

So some parents I’ve talked to, I’ve heard that they have an easier time with their insurance with ABA therapy than they do with some of their other therapies.

Have you experienced that?

I can definitely see that you have to have a lot of specific criteria to meet the threshold for ABA. I’ve seen my clients get recommendations for so many more hours than I would have expected them to get. And then it’s up to the family if they want to accept that, or, you know, if they want to reduce it, but it’s, it’s really crazy to see how insurance works because it, you know. It, um, they’re just extremely picky about things, but when it comes to ABA, they’re actually pretty awesome about it. So you know, it’s a good thing.

So parents that are listening would, um, so, so we’ve already clarified that a child who has autism or an autistic child might qualify for ABA therapy. Are there other situations that would also qualify for ABA?

It probably depends on your state, but in New Jersey, in order to have insurance pay for the therapy, they have to have the diagnosis of autism. Without that insurance, we won’t pay for it.

That’s, that’s interesting because I’m thinking, you know, we have kids who have sensory processing issues that might have aversions that are affecting their health nutritionally, that it may be, and maybe an occupational therapist may be more Along the line of what insurance is thinking would, would help them with that.

Um, but I could see, you know, different situations. The, um, so my, my daughter when she was young, now those who have been listening know Emily’s visually impaired. When she was little and we were doing the early intervention, she was completely tactilely defensive. She could not handle any sensory input. I can remember going to playgrounds and even indoor playgrounds like fast food places.

because she was so afraid of slides and most of the slides at that age they’re tunnels so they’re dark and so the vision was playing a part of this but that closed in part she just could not tolerate that so her therapist would take her down time after time kicking and screaming you know bloody murder that she could not take this it was so hard to watch that as a parent knowing that this was traumatic for her but we always got to the point by the time we left the playground where she would do it by herself So I was torn as a parent back then.

It’s like, is this good for her? Or is this emotionally leaving a mark on her?

Aversion therapy is what she was engaging in, where basically you take them and you put them in the middle of the fear. I have a lot of controversial opinions on that. I talk about this in my abnormal psychology class because. I think it really depends on what the fear is.

That sounds like it was something that was safe, that she wouldn’t get harmed if she went through it. It also is, even for me, not as a parent watching that, my heart would break and I would just feel really.

Oh, I could only imagine what the other parents thought.

Yeah.

You know, seeing this and, and, and, and this is, you and I were talking before we started recording. As parents, when our kids are young, we don’t know how we’re supposed to do these things. We kind of stumble along and we hope that we have the right advice coming in. And it’s why these conversations are so important because we need to, to, to learn from each other. We need to figure out this stuff.

And that’s what I agree with, and in ABA, we do what’s called shaping and fading. So we shape the behaviors and that’s basically what they were doing with her. is shaping and moving her closer and closer and closer, but it was at her comfort level at what made her feel safe and okay. And that’s when I agree with aversion therapy.

Okay. So those may not have been ABA therapy, but it kind of gives me at least a connection there with, from our experience. And maybe our listeners can, can think of it that, that, that way as well. So is, is ABA therapy right for every child on the spectrum?

Not whatsoever. It really depends on the child.

I’ve definitely worked with kids where it just, it didn’t connect for them. It didn’t work for them. And part of that is the family too. When you’re doing ABA therapy, the family really has to be heavily involved. So early intervention is parent training where the parents actually being trained during the session and a lot of parents don’t know that or don’t want that.

So you know, about half the time that I’ve worked with my parents for the last five years, they’re in the house or in the room, but they’re sitting on the couch, you know, and then we get a slower kind of progress. Or you have kids that just neurologically, they cannot connect. I worked with kids like that too and the parents didn’t get it either and we had to stop.

You know, it’s just, it’s not always something that connects with the kids. So I would say about 95 percent of the time it works, but you have to remember too that with ABA, I call it trial and error. So a lot of times if something doesn’t work, I’ll get creative and do something else or I’ll get creative and turn around a technique to fit the child rather than do it specifically step by step like you have to do, you know, and some people don’t want to do that and some families don’t do that.

So it’s, it’s something that’s very individualized and it’s very much by the kids. So it really depends on all those different factors to understand if it really is going to be something that works for the child.

How long would you typically work with a child, like over years?

So that depends. So I’ve gone from company to company just because trying to find clients, trying to increase the amount that I made because it’s, it’s very not stable.

It’s fee for service. So if a client cancels, I don’t get paid. Um, so early intervention, I think the longest I worked with a kid was a year. Because we can get them anywhere from 14 months to three months before they turn three and age out. And I think before that, I worked with a kid for like a year and a half that was two until she was like three and a half.

Um, so it really depends. ABA therapy can go from the age that they start until 21. So kids with autism don’t, so they graduate high school, their version of high school at 21, and they age out and go into adult services at 21. So, I, um, I have a family I worked with, I’m still friends with, and I quit the company that I was working with.

So, they got a new therapist. The new therapist stayed with the little girl, because I’ve stayed friends with the family and they helped me and my, um, doctor and everything. They stayed with her for about five years until she no longer qualified for ABA and didn’t need it anymore. So, you could have times where you stay for a long time like that, or you have times where I’ve taken over for other therapists because The child got so used to the therapist that the dynamic didn’t work to make progress.

So times where you have to make that decision that maybe fresh person would be more helpful and it’s nothing against the therapist. It’s just that, you know, they worked with them so much. They’re just too used to them. So it varies.

I could see too that maybe you would take breaks every now and then too.

As you’re, I know a lot of times, yeah, therapy can get overwhelming.

Yes, that happened too. So the family that I was friends with, they took a break because the child, so she’s gone through different diagnoses. She, um, first had autism and I think it got taken away. She got something else. There’s a new diagnosis.

I can never remember what it was. And then she got PANDAS. And then she got the diagnosis for autism again. So she’s been all over the place and that’s kind of appropriate for her because her personality is like that. She’s, she’s amazing how far she’s come, but she, she’s definitely the type of person, very energetic, very all over the place, very ADHD.

Um, but she’s incredible, absolutely adore her and how far she’s come. Um, but you know, it’s, it’s very interesting to kind of see how these different things happen over time.

And I know some of our parents that are listening, maybe thinking one more therapy session, but parents, sometimes your child’s going to age out of some of the helps that they need now.

And you may move into others that are more focused on the skills that they’re working on. Um, I know with Emily, we only did OT until she was three. And then she might’ve benefited a little bit longer with that. It was just the way that the timing was, but the school took over with some of that for her too.

And she had a sensory diet. They were able to kind of work on that within her classroom. So um, so it was nice though to drop one extra appointment every week to just as a family because we, we needed a break too. And sometimes in the summer we would take a break just to have a month off,

you know, take a vacation, take some time off, you know, cancel session if you need to.

So. Um, you know, that family took about six months off and then started with me. I worked with her for about six months and then it was not a good company, so that’s why I left them. Um, but they got a new therapist that was amazing and she’s doing phenomenal now. I commented on, um, an Instagram post about early intervention services and stuff.

And another mother commented on what I said, and she’s go, she goes, between my three kids, we have 11 therapists. And I was just like, God bless you. You’re an amazing mother.

Yeah. It’s, I mean, and I don’t know how I’ve had guests on that. That’s what I’ve asked them. How do you even do this? Because you’re juggling, especially if they have more than one child who requires some type of service.

And even if you don’t, you’re. Typically developing child, whatever that really means, they still have social activities. They still, you know, they need to have those growth times where they can be with their peers, practice being away from you, things like that, that still takes your focus too.

And then you got to think about too, you know, you’ve got a husband or wife, you have grandparents, you have aunts and uncles, and you.

It’s family time and you know, it’s a juggling act and it’s a lot and that’s why I’m glad there’s parent support groups that, and I tell my family, it’s like support. That’s what you really need is your family on board, you know, and the families that I see the most progress in the kids are the ones that have that support.

Like the little one that I’m working with now, the dad’s not very, he’s on board with therapy, but I don’t think he believes the kid may have autism, doesn’t really believe that she’s never gonna verbally talk. I don’t know that she’ll never verbally talk, but You know, there’s a good chance she may have apraxia and you know, her, the mom’s parents and I think it’s an uncle.

I don’t remember if it’s the mom’s brother or the dad’s, but the uncle and his wife are supportive because their child went through EI too. So she’s got this whole other side of the family outside her husband that is super supportive and the sisters help out. So it’s this kid. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a kid make progress this fast.

Yeah. Like she’s, she’s phenomenal. The family works with her, you know, the sisters work with her and. I absolutely adore this family. It’s going to be hard when she ages out in August, but you know, I could not be more proud.

So I just had one more, one more question I was going to ask you before, because I want to talk about, about your, your books as well.

Um, so I was just wondering, could you give our listeners some ideas if they’re, if they’re Looking into ABA therapy, if they, if they’re not familiar with this yet, or maybe if they are and they’re looking for a new practice, what could they do to ensure that they have a positive experience?

What I’m seeing that I would recommend is, I think it’s NJ Autism.

On Facebook, there’s a New Jersey Autism group where families actually post in there and say, hey, I’m in this county. I’m looking at these providers or I’m in this county. What would you recommend? That’s what I would tell families. to do is talk to other families. Don’t be afraid to post out there. You can always put anonymous on Facebook.

You don’t want anybody to see, but find the Facebook groups about it. That would help you for your state and do your research and talk to other families. That’s how you’re going to know what company is good and what company is not is gold based on their experiences. You know, everybody’s going to be biased and have different opinions, but at the same time.

If you have more people having a positive experience than negative, that’s where you should go. You know, because not everybody is going to be happy, but if 80 percent of the people say they like this company and only 20 percent have an issue, I would go with them. You know, so talk to other families and don’t be afraid to put a post out there asking for help and thoughts and ideas on Facebook.

Because it’s a huge support system and I mean like 50 to 100 comments helping these families. And it’s pretty amazing to see.

It’s, it’s great advice because I have a resource page on the website, but I can’t keep up to date on something like that. And you really need to hear from what parents are experiencing firsthand.

So um, great, great advice there. Let’s talk about, um, Happy Thoughts. So the name, this is your most recent book, right?

So that came out in January. I had another book come out in April for Autism Awareness Month. Oh, what is the name of that one? So that one is called Bones and Friends, the Case of the Missing Mice.

And that’s my special needs spinoff book of Cats. So it’s my spinoff of Purrfect as I Am. And it sees the three brothers, one always narrates. That’s, I guess that’s just kind of my style is I have a character narrate. So each one of the boys narrates a different mystery in this series, and they use their special need to solve the mystery, to show families that just because they’re blind or, you know, they have three legs.

They can do it too.

I was looking at Going to the Aquarium a little bit so we can, when I, the next questions I’m going to ask you, you can answer based on either one of the books that you want to pull out on this. So I know Happy Thoughts is going to the aquarium and I kind of like that with it. We’re recording this listeners in the summer.

You’re going to be listening to this in the fall, but, but, but join us for a summer conversation here. So is this a social story?

Some people have asked me that and used it as social stories, and I never intended it to be that way, but I think it can be used that way. You know, each one is like my Let’s Talk series, where it’s a different social issue and a different activity that’s near and dear to me.

So that’s why I chose the aquarium, because I have this passion for animals too, but it was also a really great way to show social anxiety. And what little ones can go through. Kind of with the sensory processing, too, because she doesn’t like somebody touching her or close to her. So, you know, when I do fairs, a lot of families come up to me and say, my kid has this, and I didn’t realize it was sensory processing, because it’s not talked about.

So that’s why I wanted to put that in there, too. And, you know, Having social issues is a really big indicator of autism. So I wanted families to see that their child can do it too, and that maybe their child, who’s neurotypical, can be like, Hey mom, how can I talk to this little kid who, you know, ran away from me?

Start that conversation so that kids that age want to learn and befriend the kids anyways. So that’s really where the idea for And Happy Thoughts is narrated by the character with autism, and she does not speak verbally. She uses, uh, index cards to talk or she writes, so it, it was really one of the most incredible things to write that book and then see it come to life because you have very, very, very few books where the character with autism is number one, female, and number two, not seen as a superhero with superpowers.

It’s controversial, but I think autism is just a different way to learn. Why are we characterizing it as a superhero and power? You know what I mean? So,

so you said it’s told through her point of view. So she’s the narrator. Are the, and she, is she, is she using an AC device normally when she’s talking? Is this?

So when. When I wrote the book, I wanted the way she talks, so it’s called Happy Thoughts, because it’s her thoughts as she’s going through the book. So her thoughts are in bubbles, and then when she’s talking, you see in the illustration, she has her cards, or she’s writing. So it’s her thoughts, and then it’s translated to a PECS.

So you see throughout the story how she goes from that, and how she communicates with her friends, and how her best friend Harper communicates with her, and then shows the new little boy how to do it as well. So you get to see More than her speech with her verbal words, you get to see her actual thoughts.

Okay. So I was wondering, are you using What she, if, if this was a child that is in this actual situation, are you using the words that she would really use, that you would hear? Good, good. I like that.

Yeah, I do. She’s actually, she’s loosely based off a child that I worked with in in home ABA. Um, so that child was extremely smart.

She was five years old. She could read and write and that’s where it comes from with Emma. But the difference is that child could talk. She was limited in her verbal capability. She talked in a whisper and in maybe two, three word sentences. But I thought that was so amazing because you wouldn’t necessarily expect her to be able to do that or read and write.

So that’s where the idea came from with Emma to be able to do that. And then that turned into the PEC system for her to communicate.

Most important question about the books. Um, how can our listeners get a copy of it?

Oh, that’s so easy. So I’m on Amazon. All my books are on Amazon. My first two books, Let’s Talk, um, A Story of Autism and Going to the Zoo.

Actually, I think the third one, Learning to Bowl, those are everywhere because they were through a wide distributor. But I kind of learned and I put them mostly on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Um, you can also always DM me on social media. I do, um, ship for free, so you can always DM me and I can give you my email or you can email me lisa[@]lisaj.net and you can order books through me that you’d like. I sign it when you do that and I ship it to you for free. Um, typically I’ll ship it within 24 hours.

So it’s wherever you want to get your book from. Um, the only thing that I ask, if you’re able to, to leave a review, honest one, when you buy my book. You know, your honest thoughts, because that really helps too. Um, but, you know, you can get them pretty much anywhere, and my books are also on Kindle Unlimited, so you can get them for free as an e book as well.

Excellent, excellent. And your website is LisaJ. net?

Yes it is!

So we’re going to put all these links in the show notes, so if you’re listening, go to the webpage that’ll be linked off of wherever you’re listening from.

If you’re on YouTube, just check out the description, it’ll be down there. And if you’re on the webpage, it’s already there, right in front of you. So you’ve got it on all those options. Right. So before we wrap this up, our, our listeners, if they’ve been following us this season, they’ll know that we’re finishing up each interview with a series of.

advice starters. I don’t know how to call that. I do this different every time, but basically I’ve, I have four statements that I’m going to give Lisa and she’s going to repeat it and then finish it by giving you some advice. And so it’s just kind of a directed advice time. So, um, so I have four, so I’m going to read them and I’m going to have you repeat it and then finish it.

However you want to finish it. Short and sweet, long and drawn out, however you, however you feel like you need to answer these. There’s not a wrong on this one. All right. So number one, ABA therapy can be a powerful tool, but it’s most effective when.

ABA therapy can be a powerful tool, but it’s most effective when there is consistency.

And when I say consistency, I mean not just with the therapist, but with the family. So even when you do in home ABA, there’s a separate parent training the BCBA does with them so they can continue doing the techniques even when the therapist isn’t there. So the more consistent you are, the more positive progress you’re going to see, and the less chance you’re going to see a relapse with problem behaviors coming back.

The biggest misconception parents have about ABA therapy is

The biggest misconception about ABA therapy that parents have is that it’s a wonder worker, that it’s going to solve and change everything. I get parents coming to early intervention thinking I’m going to fix their kid. That’s not what ABA therapy is and that’s not what it does.

ABA therapy is to have, um, help your child live a productive life. Life and reach their potential as they would have if they didn’t have any kind of differences. I don’t want to use the word limitations because they’re, you know, having it’s just a different way to learn. So, you know, it’s really to help them reach their potential, but it’s not a miracle worker.

It’s not gonna. Solve autism, make it go away. It’s not going to fix anything. It takes time and effort and work.

I think today the goal is no longer to make it go away. I’d like to think that most people understand that just as you and I are not the same person, we’re all created a little bit differently.

And I think we’re recognizing, at least I’m, I’m hoping that. Society in general is recognizing that we all think a little bit differently. We all learn a little bit differently. And that’s all that this is, is just a difference in how we approach the world.

I’m seeing a big shift towards that. There’s still families that are stuck and don’t get it, but there is, there has been a really nice shift towards that more understanding, which I’m hoping just continues.

And that’s the idea behind my books too, because if we get, can have these kids seven, eight, 10 years old. You know, be open and accepting and asking these questions because they want to be friends with these kids. They’re going to grow up to be these 25, 30 year old adults who are more accepting, more open, and we’re going to have less bullying, you know, so that’s, that’s the hope with a lot of things.

And if I can inspire people to go on to be professors, do it too. You know, be in psychology and be an AVA or be authors, then, you know, we’re going to have more positivity coming out from that too, and that’s the real beauty in what I do that I love.

All right, so for parents considering ABA therapy for their child with autism, I always recommend

For parents who are considering ABA therapy for their child with autism, I always recommend do your research, look at the reviews, um, talk to more than one company.

Always get a second opinion and go with what you’re comfortable with. Um, you know, go with the owner that you’re comfortable with. Go with the therapist you’re comfortable with because I’ve definitely taken over for a lot of therapists because the family wasn’t comfortable. And that’s really the best thing you can do.

You know, just because you get assigned this one therapist doesn’t mean you have to stick with them. You can voice and say, Hey, I’m not a fan. It’s nothing against her. I just don’t click with her or him. Can I have somebody else? You know, always speak up and do your research.

I’m glad you said that. We, I’ve said this many times, but I think we can’t hear it too many times.

It’s okay to quote fire your doctor, fire your doctor, your therapist, your teacher. You need to go with your gut and know what your child needs and it’s okay to move from one to another because it could be personality, it could be communication, it could be your child’s response, but put yourself where you’re supposed to be.

And, um, and I appreciate you saying that because I think we need to hear that. I was one that I didn’t know that I could do that for the longest time. I felt like I was doing something wrong when I needed to do that. And so it was, um, it was, it was, it was hard for me, but it was a breaking point where. I broke out because of that and it, it helped a lot in the future.

Absolutely. And I’ve had families say the same thing to me, like, I feel bad and blah, blah, blah. You know, it was talking to the case manager and the case manager said, Hey, you know, we’ll switch then, you know, because I didn’t know I could do that. And you know, it’s, it’s really, it’s the comfort level and not everybody clicks and that’s okay.

And we get that, you know, I’ve done it with families. too, because I’ve tried to stick it out. I’m just like, this is not clicking, you know, so we can do it too, you know? So you gotta make sure you got the connection there cause that’s going to really help, otherwise it’s a battle and that’s not okay.

All right. So last one, one of the most rewarding things about being an ABA therapist is seeing an autistic child.

One of the most rewarding things about being an ABA therapist is seeing an autistic child succeed. When they get that one positive thing, I’ve talked about my client I have right now, early intervention, and The most rewarding thing to me that I’ve seen with her is she looks me in the eye the whole session.

This little one couldn’t sit, couldn’t look you in the eye, could not point, you know, and now she’s looking. When I walked up one Sunday, I had my sunglasses on, I walked up to her, they were outside in their driveway. I walked up, she waved at me and did the same for more, holding my eye contact. I was so shocked.

She did it all on her own and usually mom prompts are like, wave at miss Lisa, you know, and she all on her own. She knew immediately she’s holding my eye contact and it’s just, it’s shocking in the best way possible. And it makes me so incredibly proud of her. And that’s, what’s rewarding to me is seeing the progress, whether it takes.

A week or it takes six months, there’s going to be progress at some point as long as we’re patient. And that’s the most rewarding and best thing to me is when I see them make even one small bit of progress.

What else have we not talked about yet? Do you have any projects going on?

Oh yeah!

What else can you tell us?

Next up is Mischievous Cat Brothers. It is from, so anybody who’s read Rascal Cat Brothers, that’s my Cat Brothers series. And each one is going to be a different kind of like rascally, mischievous name. So next up is Mischievous. And my younger ones, for people who have read the book, is the little one that I brought home in that book.

It’s his story, so it takes up right where we left off, where the two of them were getting to know each other, and you see more of the little mischief maker that might or, well, in the book, he’s Snowball. So you see a little bit more of the mischief that Snowball gets into, um, and how he drives his brother crazy.

So that’s my next project that’s coming. So just, you know, follow me, see what’s next. I finally have a TikTok, so you can actually follow me on TikTok, um. I just finished my FAIR circuit, so that’ll start up again in the fall, but next up will be, uh, some teases and cover tees for Mischievous Cat Brothers, so I’m very excited about that.

So stay tuned and follow me on social media because you’ll get tons of updates of what I’m doing, what’s coming next. As, uh, everything comes out, I’m very excited. Mischievous is going to be ridiculously cute, and I hope everybody thinks it says funny as Rascal Cat. Because that meant a lot to me. I’m not typically funny, so when people would laugh, I was like, yes!

We’ll include the links for the books, uh, her website, and all of the social media links too, so you can connect with it. Do you, um, what’s your best social media, is it Instagram, Facebook, what is yours?

Probably Facebook and Instagram. I’m getting better with TikTok, and thankfully for my students, they help me with, uh, Um, social media and, you know, little things that have to do with the internet.

They think I’m really cute and funny, thank goodness, they feel bad for me and help me. Um, but thank you to my students that help me with this stuff, I’m learning. Um, but, um, yeah, you’ll get me most on Instagram and Facebook, and I’m getting better at going on, um, TikTok and keeping up on that.

Excellent. So we’ll have the link.

So everyone go and subscribe now so you can follow what she’s doing and you’ll see all these books that are coming out and what’s beyond it. So by the time you’re listening to this, some of these may be out by now, just because we had to interview early in the summer. So it’s not going to come out for a little bit, but, um, but yeah, it’ll be fun, fun, fun for you to be able to see.

And I’m sure you’re sharing some of the illustrations and all as you’re, as you’re gearing up for, for launches.

I’m going to be, I got rough sketches now, and I get final sketches this week, so I’m probably, I don’t know if I’m going to share sketches or if I’m going to share, um, color ones, but I’m definitely going to share something very soon, maybe a little clip from the book, and definitely when I get the cover, I’ll do a cover tease.

Perfect. Perfect. All right. Well, thank you for joining me today. This is um, I think it’s an important topic that we needed to talk about. I want our parents to understand what ABA is. I appreciate you taking that and kind of breaking it down for us to understand better. And I, I’ve got to read your books now.

Thanks for joining me today. I hope you now have a better understanding of how ABA therapy can be one option for autistic children that might help them thrive. I’d love to hear your thoughts about this topic, so leave it in the comments. Remember, our goal at Water Prairie is to provide support and encouragement to parents, so keep it positive, please.

In the next episode, I’ll be talking with Jennifer Breaux about accessible travel for neurodivergent families. She has some awesome ideas on how to make that possible. I’ll see you then.