Show Notes:
Is your child ready for independence? Discover the first steps to take, whether they are 4 or 18.

In this episode of the Water Prairie Chronicles, host Tonya Wollum sits down with authors Kristin Lombardi and Christine Drew to tackle a topic that weighs on the hearts of many parents: preparing our children for independence.

Drawing from their book, Spectrum of Independence: How to Teach Your Neurodiverse Child Daily Life Skills, Kristin and Christine provide practical, empathetic advice. They discuss how to “fade” your presence from daily routines, introduce powerful tools like task analysis, and why you should never fear that it’s “too late” to start. This conversation is a must-listen for any parent wondering how to build the foundation for a fulfilling, independent future for their child.

Key Takeaways:

• Starting small and early on daily tasks like toothbrushing can build confidence and momentum.
• Learning to fade your presence and prompts is crucial for your child to take ownership of their routines.
• The book introduces the concept of task analysis to break down large skills into small, manageable micro-steps.
• It’s never too late to start working on independence, and tools like phone alarms can be a great place to start with older children.
• Independence is a spectrum, and every small step is a win.

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Music Used:

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Episode #134: The Surprising Reason Your Child Doesn’t Do Things On Their Own

Is your child ready for independence? Discover the first steps to take, whether they are 4 or 18.

(Recorded August 5, 2025)

Full Transcript of Interview:

00:00 Shift From Enabling to Empowering Our Children

Tonya: As parents, we often do things for our kids that we shouldn’t, and sometimes we don’t even realize it. It’s a common struggle, and in this episode of the Water Prairie Chronicles, we’re here to help.

I’m sitting down with Kristin Lombardi and Christine Drew, authors of the book Spectrum of Independence, to discuss how to shift from enabling our children to empowering them. We’ll cover why it’s never too late to start teaching independence and how every small step of this journey is a win.

Welcome to the Water Prairie Chronicles, a podcast for parents of children with disabilities. I’m your host, Tonya Wollum, and I’m glad you’re here.

Kristen and Christine, welcome to Water Prairie.

Kristin: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Christine: Thank you.

00:36 The Problem with Helping Too Much

Tonya: Today’s topic is one that a lot of our listeners are going to relate to. Parents who have children with ADHD, Down syndrome, autism, multiple disabilities. They all know firsthand how frustrating it can be when we feel that we’re repeating the same instructions over and over and over again and what seems like a simple task becomes this major meltdown.

And some of them may feel it’s just easier to do it for their child instead of trying to push their child to do it themselves, just to keep peace in the family. And we’re recording this in the summertime. I know we have a lot of overwhelmed parents who have been home 24 hours a day with their kids and they’re just trying to keep peace right now.

So part of what I was thinking about when we started looking at this topic was we have parents who are worried about the future. My kids right now are at the college stage, we’re at that independence level of trying to figure out when they exit for good, are they ready financially?

Are they ready to cook for themselves to keep their house in a healthy situation? We’re beyond the dressing and the brushing their teeth, things like that. But we started way back early with that mindset of how do we get them to be adults when they grow up? And there’s so many questions that every parent faces and our parents who have children with disabilities have even more questions, especially if their child’s neurodivergent.

02:00 Starting Small,  But Starting Now

So these parents who are really, their kids are younger right now, but they’re worried about the future. You know, what’s gonna happen in 10 years and 20 years, whenever they’re at the stage that I am right now, are they gonna be able to let go one day? And so, how can they begin preparing their child for independence when they’re young without feeling like they’re putting too much pressure on them?

Kristin: Well, we like to start small and the earlier you start, the more opportunities you have to practice. And the less pressure and stress there is because you have time, right? Versus if the later you start, the more of this concern is like, oh my goodness, they’re gonna finish school and they’re supposed to go to college and they’re not independent.

And that clock is ticking, right? using the task analysis to break down skills or however you teach your child, you start small with just let’s work on toothbrushing. Let’s work on dressing. Before you’re working on the entire morning routine, right? And sometimes a big first step is just let me stop giving my kid 15 reminders to do something.

Let’s just start with that, Because that’s a big step. How do we, fade myself or begin to fade myself out of this routine? So I think you want a big picture of what you’re aiming for, but then you also wanna be able to step all the way back and be able to just take one step at a time.

‘Cause all of those steps add up. If you go into it with, this is the big picture, and I just need to be here right now. That, I think, is when it becomes very overwhelming for the parent and then simultaneously stressful for the kid.

Christine: Big worry of, 21, these sort of big cutoffs, right? So 18, if they’re graduating on a regular diploma, 21, if they are getting transition support, sometimes up to 22. for most people, that being pretty far in the future, if we’re thinking about a 8-year-old, 9-year-old, thinking you may not know even what the goal is, but you have an idea of, I want my child to, be able to take care of their daily living routines.

They might live with me, but, showering needs to be an independent activity as much as possible. Toileting needs to be an independent activity. picking and choosing these specific things to start on. And we recommend, things that you do multiple times a day because then again, you have more practice opportunities.

So toothbrushing is the big one because we should all be doing that. Twice a day. And so that gives you multiple opportunities and it’s something you can be really consistent with versus a skill that maybe you’re only doing once a week or twice a week, or even five times a week.

Again, those practice opportunities of twice a day, every day, keeps you as the parent consistent keeps you focused on on the task, versus a sporadic, oh, we’re gonna work on packing our backpack. Well, you might only do that five days a week. So, thinking of practical terms as well. What are you gonna do most often? What are you gonna be most likely to, hold yourself in your child accountable well?

Tonya: Would you recommend that a parent look at where their highest stress point is first?

Christine: We try to think about it too, where, let’s say, let’s say shoe tying, right? You’ve been tying your shoes every morning because, if they miss the bus, you have to drive 20 minutes in the opposite direction of work to drop them off at school, and it just starts the whole day off on a bad note and you know that it could spiral, right?

So you are to avoid stress doing this task for them. And so rather than saying,that’s your highest stress point, start there. We would say, let’s work on tying our shoes at a different time of day. Maybe start on the weekend when no one is stressed and there’s a really good thing, right?

So, okay, we’re gonna go to the park. That’s motivating for your child. They’re gonna want to be involved in the shoe tying versus school on a Monday, they’re gonna be like, Oh no. Oh no, I won’t be able to get to school on. Oh, no.” So we’re kind of removing the it from the stressful, yes, thinking about stress, but removing it from that stressful situation to work on it versus trying to work on it in that high stress environment and high stress time.

Kristin: And also I think there’s something to be said depending on the case and the family, whatever, that sometimes starting with the easier task the task that you’re the child is more closely to doing independently builds up a level of momentum and some confidence both in this child and in the parent.

And so sometimes that is the way to start too. I think it’s really very specific, depending on the family. we talk a lot about is the child ready and is the parent ready? And there’s a lot of info on what are you going through right now as a parent and sort of in working through all of that, It helps the parent then decide where to start, what would work for them.

06:54 The Biggest Challenge to Fading Prompts

Tonya: In the book, you talk about the importance of fading a parent’s presence. What’s the biggest challenge that parents face in that process, and what’s the key to making that successful?

Kristin: I think the biggest challenge, they don’t even realize how embedded they are in the routines.

When you say to them, we need you to get out, and they’re like, well no, but they can do this independently. But it’s not, when you really look at the details of what’s happening, there’s so much involvement, whether it’s reminders to do something, whether it’s leaving stuff out for them. For example, they’re supposed to take a vitamin in the morning, and you’re leaving the vitamin out on the counter for them versus them knowing to go get it themselves.

They might know how to measure out Tylenol for themselves, but do they know when they need to take the Tylenol? And so those are higher level examples. Younger kids, a lot of times there’s just this constant stream of verbal reminders and prompting, and it’s okay when they’re really little, but at some point, your child should know it’s seven o’clock.

I should go take a shower. And not be relying on you. I always say to parents, if the goal is to go to college, whether it’s inclusive, higher ed, or gen ed college, you are not going with them. So if you are involved, they’re gonna have a problem when you’re not there.

08:25 Are You Helping Too Much?

Christine: I would say similarly, it’s parents struggling to accurately assess what is a prompt, when am I providing a prompt?

And this, we have students who come to our program, and it is, oh, they shower independently. They do, they can do the manual tasks of showering, but maybe Monday, Wednesday, and Friday were showering days and the parents didn’t say, go take a shower. But rather they would say, oh, it’s Monday.

And that, by itself, is the prompt. And so the parents are thinking, I’m not helping at all. Right? They go to the bathroom themselves, they get their towel themselves, they, use all that. But then when, when we don’t have, oh, it’s Sunday, then we just don’t know that it’s time to take that shower.

I think part of it is helping parents to assess how much they’re actually doing, and the number of verbal prompts in particular Kristen and I talk about, are really difficult to fade. because we use it for multiple things, right? I’m keeping them on task, reminding them of the next step.

If they get a little distracted, that’ll get ’em back on track. So again, it’s this kind of constant presence. And then it’s most difficult to fade because a physical prompt, right, we can, we can fade ourselves really quickly, but verbal, you would have to fade to like partial verbal where you’re giving them part of what they need to know.

And again, then the parent has to also watch potentially their child struggle or not know what to do next. And so that’s why we really like the task analysis because it can be written, it can be visual. And that way, rather than having to use our words, which are difficult to fade, we could point at the, the task, pull out the picture.

We could do some things that again, can be transitioned to independence. The child can learn to pull the thing, they can learn to point, and maybe they can learn to self-coach verbally, but that is a harder, harder thing to fade out.

Tonya: All of our listeners are coming from a different point too.

We have some who have, twice exceptional kids who have very weak executive functioning skills, but they’re in a gifted and talented program. And so their prompts are gonna be very different. And I think almost that’s a harder group to recognize what they’re doing because they’re helping along.

And I was in that situation with my son and at the stage where he is now, he’s starting to push back. And that’s helping me to know and to recognize where I’m doing that. It’s difficult when you’re the parent because when you’ve had to care for a child a little different from what the ordinary path is,you’re more involved in those little things that you’re talking about. Helping them organize themselves just ’cause you go into survival mode, especially when they’re young. So, right. It’s really hard to recognize in ourselves when we’re doing that.

As a family, we’ve had to stop and look at that a few times. When I say we’ve been trying to push them out of the nest for years, it started when they were babies. We actually read a book back then called Growing Kids God’s Way. And their biggest piece of that was from day one, your goal is to make them independent adults one day. And that’s been the focus that my husband and I have had all these years, is how do we get them to that next level of independence?

And that’s hard as a parent. To watch it happen, as you’re saying. So, beyond that young child and trying to prevent the tantrum and outburst when you’re trying to get ready for work and you’ve got three other kids, you’re trying to get out the door, you know, you’re gonna get a call from school because nobody got to school in the right emotional mood at that point.

We also go through that in different things too. I’m thinking about now we’ve got listeners who have kids that are older, they’re in high school, maybe they’ve already launched and they’re in college right now. The parents are listening and they’re like, I haven’t, I’m still calling my child every morning.

12:24 Is It Too Late To Help My Teen Become Independent?

I’m still, telling them everything they have to do. What, what can they do at this stage? Their high schooler has a year left before graduation. What are some first steps that they can take to try to, to catch up? Maybe at this point?

Kristin: The first step is to realize what they need to stop doing the parents.

Right? There’s a story in the book of one of the vignettes about if you were sick in bed and you didn’t get out of bed, would your child make it to school themselves? Would they get up and get ready? And I think just going through that exercise, even if it’s in your head, of all the spots where your child would potentially get stuck because you weren’t there either as a visual prompt, just the sight of you, a verbal prompt that you weren’t setting stuff up for them, that morning or the night before to make everything run smoother.

If you’re, if you’ve removed yourself where all those bumps gonna be, and those are the places where you wanna start. If you have a child, for example, that has a motor delay, it might take a long time to teach dressing. It’s gonna take them a little bit longer to get the, the muscle memory down, right?

But you could have a kid who’s just become dependent on the prompts just because that’s what they’ve been doing, their whole life. And you could, you’ll find that once you explain to them, this is sort of the new way that this is all gonna work, right? Like, I’m not gonna be doing this anymore.

And it’s your responsibility that sometimes they can make very quick progress.

Christine: Even things like adding, we all have phones, so adding prompts to the phone. So coaching your child on, okay, so you need to have something on your phone, or you need to have an automatic alarm that’s set for Monday through Friday, right?

And we’ll get that set. It’ll go off. Your first reminder says, wake up at 8:00. At 8:15, it says, brush your teeth. At 8:30 it says, pack your lunch. At 8:45. So there are ways technology has allowed people to become a lot more independent in that way. And so that would be another thing is, yeah, first identifying where am I in this routine when I shouldn’t be, right?

14:38 Using Technology to Build Independence

And then how do I replace myself with either telling them, Hey dude, I’m not calling you in the morning anymore. Like this is on you. You need to figure it out. But for some folks, that is gonna be too, too difficult, right? That’s a big jump. So instead you could say, we’re gonna sit down, we’re gonna set some things on your phone.

When your phone makes a noise, you need to do something. That’s what that means. And we don’t just dismiss the prompt. We read what it says and then we do that activity. Most, I would say inclusive higher ed programs are going to have some level of prompting, either from an app or from multiple apps or multiple things on the phone.

Because again, that’s just a prompt that they carry with them at all times. So that would be another way to be strategic with what your young adult already has access to.

But most kids, talk about this young children will say, no, I do it.

But for children with disabilities or who have needed that extra support that “I do it” phase maybe never arrived or maybe arrived at 17 instead of two years old.

I think we have always had a lot of empathy for what parents are dealing with.

It’s more that parents just have not had these natural prompts from their child that they are ready for independence. That’s not the parent’s fault. They’re responding to what’s in their environment.

They’re responding to the needs of their child in that moment, and the needs of their family. It’s more about, taking that step back and thinking, okay, where should my child be at this age? That’s another hard thing,is developmental age versus physical age. Rather than thinking,well, my child is not developmentally ready, well, their body is gonna go through puberty in the same way as everyone else is.

And showering your child when they have hit puberty is uncomfortable for everyone. And so rather than thinking about, well, developmentally they’re not ready, we can also start thinking about, but physically here’s where they are, you know, grade level, here’s where they are, here’s what their peers are doing.

That can be a hard shift, I think, to take on. I appreciate your son telling you in whatever way he did, that he would like to do it on his own. I think that’s a really big step.

Tonya: With both of my kids because of the stage that they’re in. But because of, for him, executive functioning skills, you know, and I know when I’m talking to him, when I’m working with him, even though his conversational level is like years ahead of his physical age.

I also know that those organization skills are a few years behind. And so once I realized that several years back, it helped because then the stress decreased whenever my expectation changed. And then it was more, you know, how can I get him ready for that 18 year level instead of that 22 year level?

And so progress happens and I see growth in leaps and bounds with him. It’s fun to watch. My initial expectationwas that we’d be here five years ago. It was just a shift in where it was where his sister was there five years before, but she still needs, because of her visual impairment, she still needs different supports.

But her independence is in saying, you know, I need to do this. Can you drive me there? Can you go with me and help me get checked in? When you go to a doctor’s appointment, you’ve gotta read all the paperwork. For some reason no one has large print versions of these things. So she’s like, will you read this before I sign it?

You know, things like that. Those are her pieces, but she makes those adaptations and asks for where it is. You know, we’re here, we’re ready if she needs it. And that’s translated now to her asking friends to help with that. And my son has taken his knowing where his, his weaknesses are, and he’ll send me a text.

So if he’s at a doctor appointment and needs to do a follow up, he’ll text me. He’s just texting me, not for me to do anything. But that shows up now on our conversation. So that he has that reminder on his phone. And so that’s what he figured out on his own, that that’s what he needed to make sure that he noted it somewhere so that he knew that he had that appointment later.

So it’s, it’s been interesting watching how they’ve come up with their own solutions to some of these daily tasks that I used to do for them all the time.

Christine: Right. And the ones they come up with are the ones that stick. Right. The ones that we might come up with might not actually work for them. But if they can develop their own systems, then, you know, all the better.

19:12 Did You Block Your Child’s Independence?

Tonya: So what would you say to a parent who is hearing this and thinking, I’ve been enabling my child without even realizing it?

Kristin: I think it’s very common. It’s okay. It’s good that you realize it and you’re not alone.

Realizing it is the first step to being able to change it.

Christine: Take time to have some empathy for yourself. You are not enabling them on purpose. I should hope that no one is saying, oh, I just want my child to stay home with me forever and ever, and I wanna be pouring their cereal for the rest of their life.

Most people are not thinking that. You’re reacting to your environment. You were meeting the needs of your child when they were three and it was not enabling at the beginning. At the beginning it was meeting their need because they had a need. And then over time it has morphed into that.

So you started with good intentions. No one starts out enabling on purpose. And so have a moment of empathy for yourself. You were doing the right thing when they were three, and it’s only now that they’re 8, 9, 10, that it’s turned into this thing. To echo what Kristen said, it’s great that you’re recognizing it and now we can actually work on it.

Tonya: Nice. So it’s not too late.

Kristin: No, never too late. And the reality is, is we’re all rushed on some level, whether we’re rushed ’cause we’re trying to get out in the morning or we’re rushed because we want them to be in bed, at an appropriate time. We just all live very busy, fast-paced lives, and it is a lot easier in the moment to do something for your child or give that extra reminder to keep things moving than it is to work on independence. Our default mode is notlet me show you how to do this right now as we’re rushing. Our default mode is not, of course I wanna sit here for 10 minutes while you figure out how to put your shoes on.

Right? Our default mode is we gotta go like, it’s almost eight o’clock, the bus is going to be here in two minutes. Let me just put your shoes on for you. And if you have a child that is I tell, I joke with some of the parents that I work with. I say to the moms, your child is viewing you as their personal maid.

So they’re more than happy to sit and wait for you to come and do all of this for them. You’re not going to get any pushback for them. And so it really is much harder than, it’s very easy to hear it and say, oh my goodness, I’m enabling my kid. I shouldn’t be doing this. But in the day to day, it definitely takes a big mind shift to switch over to, let me start putting this on you.

Christine: And again, it’s a mental shift. It’s also about preparing them. And we talk about, ripping the bandaid, right? We don’t need to rip the bandaid. this is not something where you’re gonna, read the book or show up tomorrow and say, okay, you’re on your own kid.

But it’s this idea of slowly changing the ratio. So you are doing a hundred percent, your child’s doing zero. Okay? So then you’re gonna do 90 and they’re gonna do 10, and you’re gonna do 80 and they’re gonna do 20. Now, of course, Kristen said, if there you have a young adult who is very capable and they are, and it’s just a matter of you keeping yourself from doing it, that’s a different story.

But an 8-year-old and 9-year-old, or even a 19-year-old who lacks the skills, you cannot expect them to simply poof, develop the skills overnight. It’s unkind to just rip that bandaid and say you’re on your own, and so again, it’s this slow you shifting your mindset and then a slow tilt toward them being independent versus you providing all of this support.

So it’s not an overnight thing for most people. Again, like Kristen, who they were like, listen bud, I know you’re, I know you can do it. You just need to do it. But for most people, it’s gonna be this slow shift from parent-driven to child-driven or child-completed, over time.

Tonya: I want to look at a section of the book.

What I really liked about the format of this is you start each chapter with a personal story, and it really drew me in to relate to the parent situation that was happening. I could see myself in a lot of these through the different stages of life with, with one or both of my kids.

 So I appreciated that ’cause it helped bring it personal to me before reading the content of the chapter. But in chapter seven is one I wanna look at. And you share a story about Gina and her daughter Lacey. they’re, talking about the idea of task analysis. Now that might seem like a strange term to a lot of our listeners.

So can you walk us through an example of what using task analysis might look like break it down for getting ready for bed at night. For maybe a nine or 10-year-old.

Kristin: The bedtime routine is complicated in the sense that there are multiple activities that lead into that, right? So to get ready for bed, put your toys away, take a shower, put on your pajamas, brush your teeth right there.

Different complicated routines, right? So in theory, maybe putting your toys away is easy, depending on what you were playing with. If it was one thing, but now you’re gonna talk about taking a shower, that’s, that could be 20 or 30 steps right there. So you wouldn’t tackle the bedtime routine in as a whole until all of these components were being done individually.

So can your child, shower themselves? Can they dress themselves? Can they brush their teeth? Then when they can do all those, thats when you’re. Tackling it as a group as far as are you transitioning from one activity to the next?

Christine: Well, and the thing about task analysis is it breaks down, so for typically develop, I use that term loosely.

Adults getting ready for bed is just, we don’t even, it’s not on a list anywhere. We don’t have it on a check. We just do it. automatic automaticity. but in reality it’s made up of a hundred tiny tasks that you do. And depending on how you break it down, it could be 200,

Because if you need a step for grabbing your pajama shorts and checking if the tag is at the back, that’s two steps, right? Putting one leg is in is one step. Putting the other leg in is another step. And so people with disabilities or neurodiverse individuals, those could all be separate steps and separate tasks that they have to complete.

That goes from being I’m getting ready for bed. to 200 things that I need to do before I can get myself into the bed. Again, it’s very easy for that to become overwhelming and for you to have one thing derail you. So if you’re trucking along and everything’s fine, and then the cap on the toothpaste, you don’t have the motor for it.

Well, I mean, we can’t brush our teeth, right? And so rather than focusing on, my kid can’t brush their teeth, it turns into my kid can’t get the lid off, which we can accommodate for or modify for. They have automatic toothpaste dispensers where you stick your toothbrush underneath. It gives you a little bit of toothpaste, and then you pull it out.

And so again, rather than it becoming, well, my kid can’t do the whole routine, if you have it laid out in tiny steps, you can target, oh, it’s just the lid.We break it down. We would never just sayall right, we’re gonna target the bedtime routine as a whole.

We’re gonna get even more granular than that. It’s a lot when you think about it.

Kristin: You could target the bedtime routine if you had, you were talking about, maybe you have an older child that’s 17. You know, they know how to take a shower themselves. they know how to put their pajamas on.

And it’s a matter of you providing reminders. It’s a matter of, I hear this a lot it’s like the, the kid goes upstairs to take a shower and half an hour later the parent goes upstairs and they’re hanging out on their bed, playing with some toy or reading a book, and they’re like, did you, did you shower?

Did, what are we doing up here? Nothing that was supposed to happen has happened. And so you could use task analysis or some sort of a checklist for these are all the things that need to be done and this is when it needs to be done by.

That’s sort of a more advanced skill and something we hope to, write about later,but there is a time and a place for targeting the bedtime routine.

27:42 What is a Task Analysis?

Tonya: So you’re using the task analysis to break down into micro steps, each piece of that larger task. So say, putting the toys away. You know, whatever the routine will be of, if you’ve got Legos out, you’ve gotta pick up each one.

You’ve got whatever the sort situation is, you’ve gotta go through all those pieces of it.

Kristin: If you’re only putting away Legos, you don’t necessarily need a task analysis for that, because in theory it’s if there’s a bin and you’re just putting them into the bin. But if you look at something like toothbrushing, we had a very fascinating review done by a woman who’s neurodiverse herself.

And what she said is she thought it was mind blowing that neurotypical people viewed toothbrushing as one activity. To her, of course, it’s not one activity, it’s a whole bunch of activities. So, something like toothbrushing you would break down into all of these different steps.

And a lot of times what parents will find is it’s not that the child can’t brush their teeth, it’s that they can’t do certain aspects. Of the sequence. And when you’re able to pinpoint where they’re having trouble, you can accommodate it. Maybe the toothpaste is an issue, squeezing out an appropriate amount, getting the cap on and off.

So maybe you got the automatic toothpaste dispenser. Maybe it’s just a matter of saying to the child’s OT, Hey, can you teach Johnny how to get the cap on and off the toothpaste? So we have some really specific practice just on that one piece that we’re stuck on at times other than when we’re doing the toothbrushing sequence.

Tonya: Okay. And in that chapter seven that we were talking about, you have a chart in there. It’s that task analysis. So parents that are looking will give you the idea here. You give the example of brushing the teeth in the book, which is a nice breakdown. Parents, when you look at this, you’re gonna see, they’re little micro steps all the way through.

 I never thought about breaking down brushing teeth to this many steps. And I’m sure getting dressed, like you were saying, checking where the tag is, which foot do you put in first? And do you have the balance to be able to put that foot in there or are you sitting down?

So there is a blank chart in here, parents. So that when you get the book, it’s full of charts and worksheets and things that are gonna help you apply all the pieces that they’re teaching you in the book. My question in this, we talked earlier about the prompting and over-prompting and how we withdraw ourselves from that by, how does that tie in with the task analysis?

‘Cause we’re gonna have to go through this to teach them the skills, but then do we start withdrawing ourselves from these steps?

Kristin: Yes. There’s a part, I think it’s before seven, where say you’re gonna work on toothbrushing, your child’s gonna do the sequence and you’re gonna film it. So that you can go back and watch it and see how involved you are.

Christine: And in what way you’re involved.

Tonya: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Great idea.

Christine: The thing that I try to remind parents everyone about is that task analysis is unique to your child and your situation. So your toothbrushing routine, that’s why we left blank ones because there’s no perfect way to brush teeth, right? And in your house, maybe you use a glass, and in my house, maybe I get the water from the faucet, right?

Or maybe I like to put water on my toothbrush first, and then I put toothpaste on, or other people don’t even do that. So it is individualized based on what your house, what your child, what your preferences are, versus us giving you the true task analysis for toothbrushing. You make your own.

And there’s a lot of freedom in that rather than feeling like, we have to do it the Kristin and Christine Way. No, no, you do it the way that makes sense in your house and with your family for every routine.

Tonya: I shared a personal story with Kristin and Christine about a time when my son was in a situation when he didn’t have his medication with him and had to figure out what to do. It showed me how far he had come in his independence from where we started, when he was first diagnosed with narcolepsy in high school.

Kristin: I was just gonna say that is a very high level of independence for him to realize that. That starts off with just like we’re at home in our kitchen and your meds are in the cabinet, do you even know when you get up on like a Monday morning, you should take them before you go to school? Right.

Because if you’re not doing that part, you never get to the part that you just told us about that your son can do. and that’s how this book came to be because Christine and I were at a conference together and we happened to be at lunch and we were at a table where I was the only K to 12 person there, and everybody else was in one of the college programs.

And they were talking about how the kids, they’re getting into the college program, which this particular table I was at happened to be. very selective programs. So, there may be letting in 10% of the kids who are applying and so you have a certain amount of skills to even make it into that cohort.

Right. But that they were still showing up. Not as independent as they had hoped they would be. And it’s things like what you just told us, like having that sort of stuff down. Those are safety concerns, right? to be able to do those sorts of things. And you have to start so early to teach all the steps that lead up to that so that your child can have that part down, that really high level of independence before they can, whether it’s go to college, get a job, have a competitive employment job, move out of the house, all of those things.

Christine: Kristen wrote a great section in the book where it’s, your child may not be the CEO of a company, but that doesn’t mean they can’t have a fulfilling job with coworkers who respect them and a job that they find enjoyment in. And so rather than thinking from this like deficit mindset of, oh, well they can’t, blah, blah, blah, if you can’t go to a four year, plenty of people don’t go to four year colleges.

It doesn’t mean that they can’t find enjoyment in some kind of enrichment, whether that is learning a skill, learning a trade, or even just having an on the job training, that gives them enrichment.

Same with, you know, a lot of people don’t own the house, it doesn’t mean that they have to live with you forever.

They might, like you said, live with a roommate. They might live in a group housing agreement where there’s four rooms, and one of the rooms is someone who supports them. but again, rather than saying, oh, well they can’t, they can’t, they can’t. A lot of people are, maybe they can, but they choose a different life.

And that doesn’t mean that my life as a non CEO is less valuable than Kristen’s life as a CEO.

Tonya: As parents of children with disabilities, we make different adjustments.

We just had an episode on a few weeks back on the grief that a parent goes through because you have that ideal thought of what your child is going to be and then you meet your child and things change. And so it doesn’t affect our child any, but we have to go through that emotional change of what our expectations are and what’s our game plan gonna be now.

That mindset is different now. It, each child needs to find their own path. My daughter went to an online high school ’cause that was a better fit for her. My son had multiple types of schools that he attended through middle school and high school. and if I could have homeschooled him, I would’ve done that ’cause it would’ve been a whole lot easier for both of us.

But, but for him, he needed that social time of being out. It hasn’t been a traditional path, but they’re putting together pieces of what they need for what they need to be independent. I’d like for parents listening to this to understand that it’s okay.

You don’t have to follow. A certain guideline that you read in a book or that, that you did yourself or that your neighbor’s doing or, or better yet, that your brother and sister have their kids doing. Your child needs to go the path that they need to go to get where they need to get to.

Kristin: Yes. I think the flexibility piece is super important, but also, the reason we titled the book Spectrum of Independence is not because it was a play on words on like the autism spectrum, but because there, it’s not black and white. Right? It’s not that if your child can do X, Y, and Z, they’re fully independent and if they can’t, they’re not.

Right. Christine wrote a part in the book where she talks about we all need help for certain things. Right? I don’t know how to change the oil in my car. It’s just not something I do. I bring it and somebody takes care of that for me. So it might not be a matter of May. Maybe your child isn’t going to move out on their own.

Maybe at some point you’re gonna have a house where there’s, you know, two apartments in the house, like a mother daughter, and then maybe the child’s living in one part and you’re living in one part, but you could still increase their independence and likely be in a better place than you are, even if you’re not gonna maybe make it to whatever this like end goal is that you have in mind.

Christine: And there’s room for growth in every stage. If your listeners go to our website, we have an email sign up where they can get a document.

it’s, a free resource and we have sort of a basic intermediate and advanced independence in these, domains. And so, rather than saying oh, we’re gonna shoot for, you should shoot for the highest goal, obviously, but it’s more important to think about these little steps that you make along the way to independence.

Because you want to be able to see the progress. It’s not all or nothing, right? If they don’t get to here, then well, we failed. If you have made it from they are leaving the table when they’re done at dinner to, they are putting their plates in the sink. That is progress. If they’re putting them in the dishwasher, that is progress.

If they are helping you make dinner, that is progress. We’re thinking about moving along a spectrum of independence rather than, we’re gonna get to this finish line and it’s a race and we’re gonna get there. No, it’s much better to think about it as this movement from left to right, from from less independent to more independent rather than no to Yes.

Kristin: I have a student, for example, that is unlikely to ever be able to live on his own. He’s very high needs. The mom was working on having him learn how to shower himself because when she read our book, she said, I never really looked too far into the future. ‘Cause we’re just in crisis mode every day.

So I’m very much in the moment. She goes, but when I read that line about, having to shower him after puberty, she was like, I, I got worried. Like, I don’t wanna be doing that. And so she taught him to shower himself and I said, great. The next thing maybe is to, can we get it so that he can go, pick out his clothes in the morning and get ready for school, get dressed.

‘Cause he can put his clothes on. And so she started giving him these clothes choices, do you want this outfit, this outfit, whatever. And she said, he really just doesn’t care. He is just picking whatever, I don’t know if he’s gonna really be able to pick out his clothes. And I said, Great.

Well, what would happen if you set aside a drawer with seven smaller bins in it and you had an outfit in each bin for the week? Can we teach him to go in on a Monday morning and open the drawer and take out the outfit for Monday? So that that’s what independence looks like for him.

Maybe he’s not piecing the outfits together himself. But can we get it so that the outfits are set up ahead of time and he can still get up in the morning and get dressed without needing you. So independence I think looks different for each person depending on what their needs are.

39:25 The Ultimate Independence Test

Tonya: Before we end the interview, I want to go into a segment that I’ve been doing the season called A Day In the Life. And I’m gonna ask each of you, if you could describe a typical day in the life of a family where you’ve seen a successful transition towards greater independence. What that might look like in practice?

Kristin: I can start using the case that we were just talking about previously where the mom taught the boy to shower. the first thing was she was giving him a bath down on the first floor because there was only a shower on the second floor. There was some reason to believe he wasn’t gonna like the shower and all of this.

I said, let’s just try. It’s a lot easier if we can get him upstairs because that’s where his bedroom is and that’s where his clothes are. She was able to shift him up and it turns out,it was a different shower than they had had in their previous house they had just moved.

And it turns out he loved the shower. And so she got into the shower and then, we wrote out the task analysis for showering as far as him washing his body. We over wash ourselves sometimes. We don’t need to soap our entire body every day, especially depending on what we were doing all day.

So I said, let’s focus on the main parts that really need, to be clean instead of stressing whether he washed his knees, right, which realistically maybe don’t need to be washed so deeply, and so, we went through that and she keeps his hair short to make washing his hair easier.

an accommodation instead of having really long hair that’s harder to manage and to keep clean. she keeps it on the shorter side for him and she was able to work through the task analysis while she was in the bathroom. And then now she’s at the point where she’s starting to fade herself.

Like if I’m in the doorway. Can you still go through the routine? Can I be in the hallway or in the bedroom? And the other big thing was him knowing when he’s, done that we weren’t just hanging out in the shower for like an hour. And so, we were very concerned about this, and we were trying to think of all these ways. Do we use a timer?

It turns out, if just left to his own accord, he would wrap things up in a timely manner, and it was okay. It wasn’t even something that we needed to put into place. And so now this is one less thing that she has to do for him, hand over hand and actually bathing him and it gives her a few minutes to be attending to her other child.

Christine: Yeah, I think that’s a great example of where parents are being heavily involved because that’s what the child needs or young adult needs.

The stories that I have are from the inclusive higher ed program, and I work with the Eagles program. And so, our students are working on, they’re addressing employment, they’re living in the dorms.

And then once they are in the advanced program, so years three and four, they’re living in sort of off campus accommodations that either owned by the university or their parents have supported them in getting. And we just did a series of interviews with parents and, one of the parents talked about how, he is now prompting her for things.

So if there’s an email that goes out that says that parents need to respond, he is texting mom and saying, did you see that you needed to fill out this paperwork? So, basically her day as a parent of a child who’s in this program, and has just graduated is that, he maybe calls her in the morning.

They kind of chat about what the day looks like. He tells her what he’s doing, if he wants to, and then they go on about their day, and he also knows how to track her. So, she might get a text throughout the day of like, what are you doing in blank place? And so it’s become this different model where instead of her prompting him, he is doing, he’s saying things like, I need to do my laundry today, today’s laundry day, or I need to do this today, or today’s garbage day.

It is sort of this thing where he’s kind of self prompting by texting her. So, he’s saying, I’m gonna take all the garbage. She’s like, sounds great. but not, not the other way around where she’s hounding him to take out the garbage.

So it’s just that it’s, it’s been a big shift. She talked about how it’s a very big shift from what she expected, and that she had to really let go. Some of our parents have been fighting for their child since sometimes before they were born because a scan came back that said a thing, or they didn’t know their child had a disability until they were three and they were fighting for evaluations. They were fighting for experts to come in, getting therapies and advocating and IEP meetings and changing schools and all these decisions and being super involved and getting them into college and it being such a big deal.

And then we’re like, okay, bye bye. See you. we have an acclamation period. Can’t see your kid for three weeks. Trust us with your precious child that you have raised and fought for and advocated for, for 22 years. see you on the other side. That is not fair. That’s not fair to the parents at all.

Thinking about this day in the life and being, really empathetic to the parents who have done all this advocacy and all of this hard work, and then we’re like, okay, trust. That is really difficult, really difficult for these parents, but that it’s worth it according to this mom on the other side where their child is now pestering them about when things are due versus them pestering their child.

Tonya: I’m glad that you shared that because I know that, even from my own story, fighting with trying to get diagnosis and trying to make sure that my kids were being challenged at the level they needed to be challenged intellectually, but still getting the supports that they needed and being told along the way at times that you couldn’t have both, you had to choose one or the other.

There’s unfairness that our parents face and they don’t always know how to navigate that. It’s part of why I’ve become an IEP coach is to try to partner with those parents to help them get a little creative sometimes with their team so that they can find these paths.

But our parents that are listening I know a lot of them are thinking about what you just talked about. This is hard for them because they do all of a sudden have to just let go. And I know every parent has to go through this, whether it’s that kindergarten drop off for the first time, or, there there’s a separation time where we make a shift from, like you said, trusting our children to be okay.

But it’s almost harder when that child is 22, 25 when they’re going away and making that natural step that their peers did years before because you’ve had all that extra time that you’ve cushioned them from, from that world.

Christine: Yeah. And there’s very few models, right? There’s your neighbor is having a different experience and even a parent of another child with a disability is having a different experience.

It can be really isolating, I think.

46:19 The Dangers of Waiting to Teach Independence

Kristin: Yeah. I think the other piece is, when you start working on the independence early, there’s more of a safety net at home, right? So if you’re. Let’s say your child’s not showering on a regular basis because you’ve dropped it into their lap to be responsible for it, right?

And now we’re on day three and it’s 95 degrees outside. And you’re like, wow, this kid really needs a shower. Well, you’re there to be like, Hey, let’s talk about this again. You’re supposed to be responsible for showering. You smell, I’m your mother and I’m telling you, you smell the other kids aren’t gonna wanna sit next to you.

Right? Versus when you drop them off at college and they’ve decided, they’re not showering just because they’ve never had the responsibility in their lap. Now you’re running the risk of getting the program director’s calling you and being like, Hey, your kid hasn’t showered in two weeks.

Like the consequences are bigger. You let your child put themselves to bed at night ’cause they’re older and now you’re finding out that they’re up until three o’clock in the morning and they can’t get up for school and they’re not focused. You can handle that at, at home when they’re away at college and that’s happening now, you’re like running the risk of getting kicked out.

47:27 The “Off the Leash” Analogy

Christine: Basically if you do not let them have the freedom of mistakes early on, you cannot help them handle it afterwards. So if the first time they’re experiencing, choosing their own meals, being responsible for showering is when they go to college that’s a big risk. They’ve never had to handle the fallout. They’ve never had to deal with that. The phrase my friend uses is off the leash and straight into traffic. So if they’ve never been off the leash, if they’ve never had that responsibility, then they don’t know how to be off the leash, and you are letting them free.

We have many Starbucks on campus, and we’ve got some folks who were never allowed to choose their own meals, and they end up eating exclusively french fries and having three frappuccinos a day. And, again, at home you would be able to kind of reign that in. But when they’re in college, you really can’t control what they’re eating.

They’ve never had practice with that freedom.

Kristin: And using that, the perfect example, because I, what I say to parents is, you control what’s in your house, but then the next step is go to a buffet. Go. It’s very easy. We have lots of restaurants here. They’re just regular. You order and it comes to you, right?

But find a place that’s a buffet and let your kid loose in the buffet and see what they come back with. Because if they can’t handle that for one meal with you supervising, how are you letting them loose then on a college campus in a cafeteria where they could be having ice cream for breakfast? The whole thing is a buffet now. It’s three meals a day.

Tonya: This is a topic that whether your child has a disability or not, parents, you’re gonna face this when your child goes off to college. They’re going to have Chick-fil-A every single meal because their card at college will buy a Chick-fil-A meal for them. That’s what I see over and over again.

You have the kids going. They’re not gonna go into the cafeteria and get their salad. They’re gonna go and have french fries, pizza, or whatever, because there’s so many venues now.

Kristin: I love the idea, Kristen. I’m just going to a buffet and seeing can they handle Golden Corral? Those teaching moments because they’re not easy to come by. Right? Like Christine was talking about, we brush our teeth every day, twice a day.

There’s a lot of practice opportunities. You don’t get as many practice opportunities with something like this, right? I remember going to sleepaway camp at one point in high school and they, they would so serve D donuts for breakfast and you could put icing on the donut. And I was like, this is the coolest thing ever.

Like I can put the icing on. The icing is great. And I’m telling my mom, like, you know, they have donuts for breakfast. And she’s like, I really hope that that’s not what you’re eating for breakfast. Like, you should be eating healthy food. Maybe save the donuts for later in the day. You know, when you have that conversation.

And I didn’t then maybe stop right away. But there definitely was this voice in my head being like, maybe you shouldn’t be eating this donut, for breakfast. And then you learn as all those things add up, you eventually get to a place where there’s self-control.

50:36 The Ultimate Guidebook for Parents!

Tonya: Right. So parents listening, we always talk about how we wish there was a guidebook for us to, to know how to raise our kids, especially kids with disabilities.

Every guidebook out there goes out the window because every child is different. I’m telling you now, the book Spectrum of Independence is your guidebook. It’s if you haven’t figured this out by hearing this interview, the pieces that they’ve put together, no matter whether your child is severely in need of guidance and help every step of the way, or just need those little prompts that every kid needs, you’re hearing from this that this is giving you a guidebook that you can go by and checklists and charts and all that you can use to help you get them to that next step that they need to go to.

So with that in mind, you’ve got checklists, you’ve got stories. You’ve got the tools that we’ve talked about. How can they get their hands on the book?

Kristin: The book is on Amazon. they can also go to our website, https://spectrumofindependence.com, and that will bring you, to the links to Amazon, and to the Guilford website to order the book.

I believe if you go to the Guilford Press website, you can get access to the data sheets that are in the book. So instead of having to copy them from the book, think you could just go on and download them from the website and print them out. and I think actually you could fill them out online too, like if you wanted to fill it out on your phone instead of printing it.

Christine and my contact information is both on the website and we, if people have questions and they wanna reach out, if they, if they need help getting through the book, we’re able to do that as well.

Tonya: Kristin and Christine, thank you for joining me today and sharing about how we can help our children get a, a greater level of independence. I think you’re created a fantastic resource for parents with this book and I hope that you get to the bestsellers list.

Christine: Thank you so much. Yeah.

Kristin: Thank you so much. We really enjoyed being here.

Tonya: Parenting a child with disabilities may present some real challenges as we prepare our children to live independent lives. Whether your child will live on their own or with support, we all want our kids to be as independent as possible.

I appreciate the wisdom Kristin and Christine have shared with us today and encourage you to check out their books, Spectrum of Independence. The link will be in the show notes.

After hearing the steps you can work on with your child, no matter what age they are what will you do differently now? Leave me a note in the comments, and if you see what another parent has written, leave them an encouraging message. Let’s support each other as we parent our children with disabilities.

And if you happen to buy the book, be sure to leave a review on Amazon or Barnes and Noble. Thanks for joining me today. I’ll see you next time.

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Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ):

Q1: Is it too late to start teaching my child independence if they are already a teenager?
It’s never too late. The first step is to recognize where you are providing too much support and then start to “fade” yourself out of those routines.

Q2: What is a “task analysis”?
A task analysis is a tool used to break down a larger skill, like brushing teeth or getting dressed, into a series of tiny, manageable micro-steps. This helps pinpoint exactly where a child needs support.

Q3: My child is a young adult. How can technology help with independence?
Technology, like phone alarms or calendars, can be an excellent way to replace verbal prompts. You can help your child set up reminders for daily tasks like waking up, taking medication, or doing laundry.

Q4: What if my child doesn’t ever become fully independent?
Independence is a spectrum. The goal is not a “finish line” but continuous progress. Every small step, from putting a plate in the sink to choosing their own clothes, is a win and can lead to a more fulfilling life.

Q5: Am I enabling my child without realizing it?
Yes, it’s very common. As a parent, you’ve likely been in “survival mode,” doing tasks for your child to keep the peace and get through the day. The first step is simply recognizing your own role in the routine and making the mental shift from doing things for your child to teaching them to do things for themselves.

Q6: Why is it so hard for me to let go?
It is incredibly difficult. Many parents of children with disabilities have spent years advocating and fighting for their child’s needs, and it can feel like a big shift to suddenly trust that they will be okay. The book, Spectrum of Independence, suggests having empathy for yourself and understanding that your past actions were based on your child’s needs at the time.

Q7: What happens if I wait to teach independence?
The consequences of waiting can be greater. It’s much safer for a child to make mistakes (like not showering or not eating healthy meals) at home, where you have a safety net, than it is for them to experience the consequences for the first time when they are living on their own in college or an apartment. The home is the ideal place to practice these skills.